Tomikawa
The press release mentions not only the executive changes effective April 1, but also changes to the board of directors that will take effect on the day of the 122nd Ordinary General Shareholders' Meeting. In this section, you are listed as “resigning,” which means you will be stepping down as a director?

President Sato
I think there are two meanings. One is that, while being mindful of the corporate governance code, we want to continue our approach to corporate governance and the management improvement efforts that Toyota has pursued so far.

The board is structured so that all directors engage in serious discussions about management, with the aim of driving Toyota’s success. Given how particular we have been about the diversity and number of members, my appointment as vice chairman cannot simply be about securing a title for outside appearances.

Society tends to be more concerned with titles than we care to admit. But that’s not really the case at Toyota. One part of this move is that we want to preserve what’s important at Toyota from the perspective of corporate governance.

The other side is that, in terms of what I will be trying to do moving forward, the badge of Toyota president, or board member, may not necessarily be beneficial— it may even get in the way.

For example, many of the areas we are tackling with JAMA are industry-spanning initiatives. We need to break out of situations where everyone agrees in principle, yet each company acts on its own. But if I try to take leadership while wearing the badge of “Toyota so-and-so,” it’s ultimately just Toyota exerting pressure on others to conform.

Tomikawa
Have you felt that way in the past?

President Sato
Despite any misgivings I have inside, I tell everyone, “Let’s do this!” Yet even when I say it’s for the good of the industry, how much sympathy can I really hope to gain while wearing the Toyota badge?

Unless I put myself in a position to genuinely serve as a conduit linking the visions of different companies, I don’t think I can accomplish the major industry reforms that we are undertaking. Those are the two things on my mind.

Tomikawa
Mr. Kon, when did you hear about these role changes, and from whom?

Incoming President Kon

I was told around mid-January. Like Mr. Sato, I was informed about the proposal by an executive from the Appointment Meeting.

My sincerest apologies to that executive, but in all honesty, I was so stunned that my mind went completely blank. No doubt they explained various details, but to be honest, I don’t remember much.

Afterward, another executive who was present outlined the points that Mr. Sato has explained, and that was when it clicked.

Tomikawa
So you never suspected that it might be you. Who did you think would become president?

Incoming President Kon
Since it’s only been three years, I hadn’t given it much thought.

Tomikawa
But as a former vice president, did you think at the time, “I might be next”?

Incoming President Kon
No, that didn’t occur to me at all.

Tomikawa
It might be hard to maintain motivation, I suppose.

Incoming President Kon
To be honest, at this point, I can’t really say that I have a clear picture of all the different elements and how exactly everything is going to unfold.

I actually learned a lot from the things that Mr. Sato has talked about.

I will be consulting with the chairman, Mr. Sato, and other executive members about the direction we will take after April 1, and the kind of team that we will set out to build.

With Mr. Sato becoming more involved in the so-called “all-Japan” efforts, I feel that the scope of Toyota’s team-based management will grow, and I intend to give these aspects my utmost attention as well.

Tomikawa
Do you think you will be able to leverage your experience at Woven by Toyota?

Incoming President Kon
I believe so. Currently I am based at Woven by Toyota, which is a software development company with many very young members, pursuing agile development that differs from hardware. That’s the mindset.

Woven has thorough information-sharing—something Toyota also needs to strengthen. It’s a company where various discussions are instantly shared through various means, an essential element in agile development.

As that experience shows, while the company is very close to Toyota, they are also not the same. There’s some distance.

The experience of seeing Toyota from that viewpoint has been incredibly valuable for me. It revealed many insights I hadn’t discovered in my career to that point, both the things that are amazing about Toyota and the aspects that give me pause. I will certainly put those insights to good use.

Tomikawa
Are you able to share some of those aspects of Toyota that gave you pause?

Incoming President Kon
Toyota is full of incredibly hardworking people, each driven by a strong sense of mission. We also have a tremendous foundation of past achievements.

At the same time, even when we set out to do something new, our mindset inevitably hews to past approaches and existing formulas. I think this is crucial for continuing to improve the current business, but when it comes to doing new things, at times I have felt that we need to take slightly different approaches.

Tomikawa
Mr. Sato, what are your thoughts?

President Sato
There are certainly many things you don’t notice unless you look from the outside. Like acting big despite having good intentions.

I feel like Mr. Kon was choosing his words just now. The company very much revolves around functions, and the people handling our operations all work hard, with only the best intentions. Yet in terms of overall optimization, our coordination across functions may sometimes be lacking.

When you view that from an environment like Woven by Toyota, which is engaged in agile development as Mr. Kon described, things may appear rigid and restrictive. I think transforming Toyota with this kind of objectivity is extremely important.

I myself came up through the technical side, what Chairman Toyoda calls the “ivory tower.” In that sense, I feel that Mr. Kon’s perspective on the world will be a driving force that greatly transforms Toyota.