Tomikawa
In that sense, Shimoyama has also been created as a place to drive, break, fix, and hone.

Akio
What had previously been difficult to achieve without taking the car to Nürburgring can now be done at Shimoyama, as well as hone cars by running 6,000 to 7,000 laps a year in the Super Taikyu ST-Q class.

In addition to this, we can also hone cars at Nürburgring, and those cars can then be passed on to the customer through our GR brand as actual drivable vehicles.

I find it wonderful that the process of producing such products is beginning to take shape.

Tomikawa
Does that mean people who enjoy cars, driving, and riding in them can look forward to ever-better cars in the future?

Akio
The definition of an ever-better car differs for each person. So, my hope is that everyone who uses our cars will enjoy them.

That’s why there is no finish line.

Tomikawa
It’s difficult because each person is so different.

Akio
I think it’s important not to think that if we offer a certain car, everyone will be satisfied, but to keep that in mind and keep the cycle going.

Tomikawa
At Shimoyama, GR and Lexus are under the same roof. How do you plan to leverage that?

Akio
Toyota's carmaking process is divided into various functions. Even within the design team, there are those who focus on the chassis and those who focus on the engine.

We are a carmaker. We want people to be able to touch the car, experience the functions of driving, turning, and stopping, evaluate the car, and feel the ride. If we could think about all the functions, from development to planning, at one genba, it would change the landscape of the future.

I don't think that simply the creation of the Shimoyama facilities will suddenly change the way cars are made.

I believe Shimoyama will have a significant meaning if it becomes a starting point for people who start carmaking there as their home base to reflect on how they should work and how cars should be made.

Tomikawa
At the opening ceremony, you jokingly said you placed GR’s President Takahashi next to Lexus’ President Watanabe because they don’t get along well, but it must be important for different brands to talk to each other in that sort of way.

Akio
I think GR and Lexus are the clear brands within the Toyota brand, which is almost like a commodity.

When you look at different models within Toyota, there are obviously beloved cars, but a company that sells 10 million cars has many faces to it. There isn’t any one car that symbolizes Toyota.

If we were to make all of these cars uniformly, we wouldn’t be able to manage a full lineup manufacturing operation and a company with a scale of 10 million units.

Therefore, you decide on a framework to some extent for each product. That is the in-house company system, and the companies with their own brands are Lexus and GR.

Those two companies are responsible for adding value to their products, and the Toyota brand is responsible for providing vehicles that provide mobility for all, which I believe is also the mission of a company that manufactures over 10 million units.

Therefore, my hope is that people do not view all Toyota cars as being the same. If they can understand that Toyota has taken on the challenge of making cars in a non-uniform way, I think they will be able to see this.

Tomikawa
It really is carmaking that leaves no one behind.

We would also like people to know that Toyota is also taking a multi-pathway approach to carbon neutrality through the development of BEVs and hydrogen.

Akio
When we talk about a multi-pathway approach, it may sound like something that is just convenient to the originating company, but energy situations differ according to the region of each user.

Around 1 billion people on this planet do not have access to electricity. Toyota would like to provide mobility to those people as well.

We would also like to provide a safe means of mobility in desert regions, where each trip is a matter of life and death.

I think it is important to further improve our current lineup by lending our ear to the situation at the genba and creating new products.

Tomikawa
Recently, you mentioned on Masahiko Kondo’s radio show that Toyota has been selling hybrid vehicles for quite some time, and data shows that it has substantially contributed to reducing CO2.

Akio
Looking around the world, we see a notable trend toward regulations that equate carbon neutrality with BEVs alone. Some manufacturers only make BEVs.

Toyota offers a variety of options, including hybrids, which use both engines and motors simultaneously. This is just one way Toyota has long been a pioneer in vehicle electrification.

However, companies without the option of hybrids have heavily criticized them.

The most important thing to remember about carbon neutrality is that “the enemy is carbon.” Reducing as much carbon as we can right now is our top priority.

Rather than focusing on whether the solution is BEVs, hybrids, or FCEVs, it is vital to let the market and customers decide and have companies that can do so offer a variety of options.

For example, between 2021 and 2023, we sold about 9 million hybrids.

Tomikawa
It’s gone up.

Akio
Some people criticize hybrids because they have engines, but the amount of CO2 emissions reduced by these hybrids is the equivalent of 3 million BEVs.

While the method involves selling 9 million hybrids, in terms of CO2 reduction, it is equivalent to selling 3 million BEVs. 3 million vehicles is an incredible number.

Tomikawa
Plus, hybrids stop as well, so if you included that, it would be equivalent to even more BEVs.

Akio
CO2 is reduced by the equivalent of 3 million BEVs. But Japan is a thermal power generation country, so if we were to build BEVs, we would have to use thermal power generation to produce more and more electricity.

Carbon neutrality is calculated by combining energy production, transportation, and use. However, currently, there is a noticeable push to focus solely on BEVs, which fall under use.

Overall, I think we need participation from more diverse sources.

To put these 3 million vehicles into perspective, this would be equivalent to the annual car market in Germany.

From 2021 to 2023, the total number of BEVs from all OEMs worldwide was 23 million. Selling 3 million represents 13% of the market share.

The media often says Toyota is lagging in BEVs.

Tomikawa
There have been regulations against hybrids as well.

Akio
From 2021 to 2023, Tesla sold 4.11 million BEVs, and BYD sold 2.81 million. BYD sold a total of 5.52 million if you include plug-in hybrids. These two companies, known as the world’s leading EV manufacturers, are structured in this way.

On the other hand, looking just at BEVs, Toyota sold around 160,000.

Tomikawa
That does seem low.

Akio
Compared to Tesla’s 4.11 million, 160,000 does feel low. However, for BEVs overall, if we add hybrids and PHEVs, then we have sold 9.03 million vehicles.

If you look at it in terms of BEV sales, people will talk about who is behind and who is ahead, but since the enemy is carbon, the goal should be to reduce CO2, regardless of the means.

When seen from this perspective, in terms of CO2 reduction converted into the number of BEVs, Tesla is first, BYD second, and Toyota third.

Tomikawa
The means and ends are all mixed up, but we should all work together for the goal.

Akio
The goal is to work together to reduce carbon. And if there is something we can do right now, we should do it.

We've reduced CO2 by that much, whether through hybrids or something else, from 2021 to 2023. I hope global car manufacturers will view things in this light.

Tomikawa
BEVs are not the only means, so we should reconsider whether they have become the end in themselves.

Akio
BEVs certainly have their advantages, but I don’t think they’re the only option.