Yuta Tomikawa
Hello to our Toyota Times listeners, I’m Yuta Tomikawa.
Today, I’d like to explore two topics inspired by the words of Kiichiro Toyoda, who believed that “monozukuri is about developing people.” He was also the one person Akio Toyoda most wanted recognition from.
Akio, thank you for joining me.

Chairman Akio Toyoda
Yes, hello. First time since Monaco, isn’t it?

Tomikawa
To be honest, I found recording that last episode in Monaco really tough.

Chairman Toyoda
But I have to say, I’m surprised I managed to stay composed, given the situation.

Tomikawa
That was right after you were effectively under house arrest.

Chairman Toyoda
I felt like I’d just been let out of jail. Some of my inner thoughts probably poured out.

Tomikawa
You were under surveillance.

Chairman Toyoda
I probably let out a few groans as well.

Tomikawa
I got all sorts of reactions from Toyota employees around me, but what they found funniest was when, at the end of that whole conversation, you said, “We hardly talked about WRC at all.” Everyone had a good laugh when they realized you weren’t given any updates.

Chairman Toyoda
Oh yes, that part. What title did we land on?

Tomikawa
For the main title we went with “Three Must-Do Priorities as Chairman.”

Chairman Toyoda
Didn’t you originally have a different title?

Tomikawa
In truth, we wanted to ask you a bit about the WRC, but we made that the main topic instead.

Chairman Toyoda
There was no way.

Tomikawa
Today we’re focusing on Kiichiro’s words, “Monozukuri is about developing people.”

Chairman Toyoda
Speaking of the WRC, in the first round (Rallye Monte-Carlo) we finished one-two-three.

Tomikawa
That’s right. It was all Toyota on the podium.

Chairman Toyoda
Then at the second event in Sweden, we clinched the top four spots. So two rounds into the season, we still haven’t let another team onto the podium…

Tomikawa
Toyota has a lock on the podium.

Chairman Toyoda
We do. Given that our lineup has changed, I think that’s impressive.

Tomikawa
As you pointed out, Oliver Solberg has brought an infusion of young energy, which also spurs the veterans to step up their game. The entire team has risen to another level.

Chairman Toyoda
Maintaining equal conditions is also key. A change in drivers tends to bring a change in directions too, but I believe they’ve maintained equal conditions. I find that impressive.

Tomikawa
This year’s Rally Japan is in May, which is only two months away. I think we can look forward to some good results.

Chairman Toyoda
I don’t know when this episode is going to come out, but as we record on February 27, there is also a Japanese Rally Championship event on. I’ll be going after this, although I’m not competing.

Tomikawa
But I’m told you’re doing a demo run.

Chairman Toyoda
I’ll do a demo run tomorrow.

Tomikawa
Thank you again, on everyone’s behalf. Car lovers really look forward to your demo runs. You do like to push things a bit. Plus it’s on dirt, where you’re really at home.

Chairman Toyoda
Yes! I can’t wait. Looks like there are quite a few puddles.

Tomikawa
The rain only stopped a day earlier.

Chairman Toyoda
Apparently the Special Stage course is good to go, but there’s quite a lot of water around. I’ll go and check the conditions this afternoon.

Tomikawa
I wonder whether the course will dry up by tomorrow’s demo run.

Chairman Toyoda
That might be asking a bit much. But I can go for a spin all the same.

Tomikawa
Still, compared to last year, when everyone ended up covered in sand…

Chairman Toyoda
This is probably better. Although getting sprayed with mud is even worse.

Tomikawa
Surprisingly, everyone had a great time with all that sand flying about. People actually enjoyed being showered in dust at Akio’s demo run.

Chairman Toyoda
Oh really? If you tell me that, I might get carried away and go overboard.
Next time we’ll get complaints (laughs).

Tomikawa
We’ll have to wait and see if people enjoy the dirt flying at them this time.

Chairman Toyoda
Might be a bit of a tough one.

Tomikawa
I’ll make sure to ask the spectators as well.
These days there’s a lot more excitement around the Japanese Rally Championship, and rally in general.

Chairman Toyoda
I think so. The MORIZO Challenge Cup has also drawn in a tremendous range of competitors, including women drivers. That’s why I want to focus mainly on giving them encouragement.

Tomikawa
We’ll have more on that on Toyota Times Sports, so please stay tuned.

Tomikawa
As I mentioned at the top of the episode, I want to ask you about two topics, one being the Toyota Technical Skills Academy, which held its graduation ceremony just today. The other is the leadership reshuffle, or “formation change” as it is being described at Toyota. As of April 1, President Koji Sato will assume the role of vice chairman, with CFO Kenta Kon taking over as president. I still haven’t had a chance to discuss these personnel changes properly with you.

Chairman Toyoda
Is that right?

Tomikawa
I’m sure many people would like to hear your thoughts, so I’ll jump right in.
First, let’s talk about the Toyota Technical Skills Academy graduation ceremony. To give a brief background for those who don’t know, Toyota Motor was founded in 1937. The following year, in 1938, virtually at the same time as the Koromo Plant (now the Honsha Plant) was completed, Kiichiro opened the Toyota Technical Youth School. This became the Toyota Technical Skills Academy.
The academy reflects Kiichiro’s conviction that to create great products you must first cultivate outstanding people, a core belief that remains firmly intact today, 78 years later. Akio, what do you think about the fact that Kiichiro’s original emphasis on developing people, and nurturing the potential of youth, has not wavered to this day?

Chairman Toyoda
Personally, I’ve always found it interesting that Kiichiro built the school at basically the same time as establishing the company. Initially, he set up an automobile division within Toyoda Automatic Loom Works. I’m sure he had colleagues who were eager to venture into automobiles, but back then the automatic loom business was like today’s automotive industry. I wonder how a group tackling this crazy venture would have been viewed within such a company? Going by Toyota Motor Corporation today, I feel like their pioneering efforts were probably seen as a disruption, a nuisance, nothing but trouble. 

Tomikawa
Especially given the money they were pouring into it.

Chairman Toyoda
They were pouring money in, and from the perspective of those building automatic looms, they were being selfish, just doing their own thing. To take on full-scale automobile production, you need to bring in a lot more people. And being a startup venture within a successful company, I imagine the feeling was, “What on earth are these guys splurging all this money on?”
I imagine he quietly built up a team of people who shared his values, and together with them, he had this wildly ambitious vision of building the future. That’s my interpretation.

Tomikawa
Bringing that into the present day, Kiichiro once appeared in your dreams and remarked that you hadn’t accomplished it yet.

Chairman Toyoda
Those words really ring true, don’t they? We have this automotive company that’s been successful in many ways, yet I feel as though he’s telling me, “What gives you the right to act so high and mighty? It was different for me. You didn’t go through any of that hardship, did you?”

Tomikawa
And that’s why every year you attend the Technical Skills Academy’s graduation ceremony, where the students regard you as a father figure, and you help to nurture the leaders who will play a key role in Toyota’s transformation into a mobility company. Is that right?

Chairman Toyoda
I think so, yes. As for what I’m teaching at the Toyota Technical Skills Academy, the other day we ran an Akio Juku, right?

Tomikawa
The first time holding an Akio Juku for Toyota Technical Skills Academy students.

Chairman Toyoda
I happened to be teaching an Akio Juku at a school in Imabari and it got me thinking, why haven’t we done this at the Toyota Technical Skills Academy? I tried suggesting it but things never got moving, so I told the academy directly, “Let’s do it this year.”

Tomikawa
That’s great for the academy students.

Chairman Toyoda
I wasn’t sure what to expect, but they seemed even younger than I imagined.

Tomikawa
If you only see the graduation ceremony, they look very orderly and disciplined, almost like a police academy, or the armed forces in days gone by, which makes it fascinating when you catch that more youthful side.

Chairman Toyoda
After the ceremony finished today, the graduates took photos in front of the Kiichiro sculpture, and it was interesting to see the moment when that “young generation” side came out.

Tomikawa
The moment you arrived, well, the fact that you spoke to them had something to do with it, but everyone just went “Whoa!”

Chairman Toyoda
When I go to cheer on our baseball teams, if I run into academy students somewhere, they react like that, which makes me happy beyond words.

Tomikawa
You’re more than a father figure.

Chairman Toyoda
I wonder what it is.

Tomikawa
They’re fans and you are like a star, someone they look up to, a father figure, and something even closer—there are so many layers, I think you’re all these things at once.

Chairman Toyoda
I guess that’s true. And the Akio Juku gave the students a chance to ask me questions directly. I felt bad that I hadn’t set up these opportunities until now, but from now on I will make sure to conduct an Akio Juku for Toyota Technical Skills Academy students two or three weeks before graduation. It will be a regular event. When I asked the academy’s director whether we could make it an annual event, he told me, “Absolutely.”

Tomikawa
We plan to feature the Toyota Technical Skills Academy Akio Juku on Toyota Times. We were looking to release it the week after our coverage of the graduation ceremony, and I think putting this podcast out before the Akio Juku episode would be interesting. So as far as going through the conversations you had at the academy Akio Juku session, we’ll leave it there for now. There were some really interesting topics, weren’t there. One question took everyone by surprise. I won’t go into the details, but when a student asked this particular question, all the instructors froze in shock. 

Chairman Toyoda
The academy director told me he thought, “I’m done for” (laughs).

Tomikawa
Everyone froze, but you were like, “All right, this is great.” I won’t say any more, but you responded in true Akio fashion. And the look on the student’s face was unforgettable.

Chairman Toyoda
He was serious.

Tomikawa
He was indeed. Well, we’ll have to wait and see. The students’ earnest questions, and your genuine responses.

Chairman Toyoda
We’ll have to wait and see. You like to keep everyone hooked, just like in your TV days.

Tomikawa
Just like a TV commercial: join us next week on Toyota Times News!

Tomikawa
But watching how you genuinely accept and embrace these students, who really have entrusted the academy with their future, I felt that was very much the Akio way.

Chairman Toyoda
I think it’s about respect.
People tend to think Toyota molds people into the same type. Certainly, given that the company’s reputation rests on quality, in that sense, we can’t have staff either going too far or falling short, so it is true that we have historically provided standardized training in that regard.
Even more importantly, however, today we live in a world with no clear right answers. Innovation is born from the fusion of diverse elements. And without innovation, we cannot survive in a world undergoing such drastic change.
Given this reality, we need to nurture and respect the uniqueness of each individual. When working as a team, however, now more than ever, we need the kind of synergy that can turn one plus one into three or four.

Tomikawa
And as you say, that requires specialized expertise.

Chairman Toyoda
It’s better to have your own area of expertise, where you are determined to be second to none. After all, those who are skilled in something can teach those who aren’t. Rather than uniform, formulaic training, that’s what we need right now. To create a world where we all help each other, and as a result appreciate one another, I think we should encourage that kind of mindset.

Tomikawa
In this AI age, we hear a lot about the need to learn more about computers, or become well-acquainted with the internet, but in fact, what you just said…

Chairman Toyoda
Trying to store up knowledge, or know a little about everything, we can probably leave that to computers and AI. I think what’s important is our ability to ask AI the right questions, and our curiosity. Taking an interest. As I grumbled when we recorded in Monaco, I want people to take an interest in what I’m doing. I think that’s crucial.

Tomikawa
There’s certainly plenty to take an interest in. The longer we talk, you just continue to bring up more and more.

Chairman Toyoda
I would hope so. Someone once said to me that a lot of people want to serve me set meals. When I say I want something to eat, they’ll give me a choice of Set A, B, or C. But I actually prefer à la carte. And when I’m eating that way, I’ll select the main dishes from each of those set meals.

Tomikawa
You also like things that are put together with care, right?

Chairman Toyoda
When the main dishes are laid out together, they look like another set meal, at least in terms of presentation. But I’m an à la carte person. What an à la carte person needs is a big selection of ingredients. I’ll do the cooking myself, so I’ll choose what I want. But many people at Toyota insist on telling me, “We’ve prepared the set meals. We can make anything you like, so please praise us.” That has been typical of the company’s elites to date.

Tomikawa
The food may taste good, but if you’re always eating from that limited range, you start to crave variety. This is a message that you want to share not only with academy students and graduates but also with the company’s young employees, isn’t it?

Chairman Toyoda
That’s why the academy students—whether taking the three-year high school course or one-year professional course—undergo that kind of training, including all those daily exercises and routines, in the hope that they will grow into leaders with these unwavering fundamentals. The world is full of different opinions. When you bring them together, if you can find something that everyone can embrace and agree on, then the company moves forward. And that will enable us to make ever-better cars, become a better company, and above all, show people what it is that makes us Toyota.

Tomikawa
If those young employees who hear these words can put them into action, Toyota should continue to thrive.

Chairman Toyoda
I think that comes down to what kind of environment today’s adults can create for the younger generation.

Tomikawa
Is everybody listening? Once again, we’ve been treated to some valuable insights.

Chairman Toyoda
Recently I’ve been venting a bit, haven’t I…

Tomikawa
The messages you want to share with employees come pouring out. If I have one complaint, it’s that I would like our Voice-Only Toyota Times News to reach more listeners.

Chairman Toyoda
People at Toyota don’t listen because they think they already know it all. They’re not hungry to learn more.

Tomikawa
They assume you’re just saying things they already know.

Chairman Toyoda
It’s more that they’re just not that interested. They aren’t really curious about me as a person, either. That’s why people who are a bit more distant from me, for instance, those from overseas, tend to listen more. The people at the heart of Toyota probably feel that they’re the ones who know best, so the chairman should just keep quiet.

Tomikawa
You’re always really tuned in to the times, that’s why you keep changing and evolving. So if people aren’t constantly paying attention…

Chairman Toyoda
I know, it’s not great, but I guess we all tend to look out for ourselves.

Tomikawa
All right, onto our second topic!
On February 6, we aired an unscheduled Toyota Times livestream to announce that President Koji Sato will become the company’s vice chairman, while CFO Kenta Kon steps into the role of president. I’d like to hear your honest thoughts on this personnel change.
Were you really not involved in this decision?

Chairman Toyoda
I wasn’t involved.

Tomikawa
When did you hear about it?

Chairman Toyoda
The proposal came up at an Executive Appointment Meeting, which is where such matters are always discussed. When I became president, it was slightly different. Back then, the next president wasn’t decided at appointment meetings or anything like that. More to the point, I was the president that no one wanted, or expected to still be there the next day, and I had to prove myself as everyone waited for me to slip up and quit. In the end, I stuck around for 14 years, because we faced all sorts of crises.

Tomikawa
The financial crisis, the pandemic.

Chairman Toyoda
I think that’s why. In my case, no one was able to say to me, “It’s about time you stepped down, this person is next.” So I figured I would have to decide on the timing for myself. But then at a board meeting, one of the executive appointment members spoke up and said, “That’s up to us to decide.”

Tomikawa
As in, “Please don’t leave”?

Chairman Toyoda
No, as if to say, “How rude of you.” But I did end up handing the role over. And to avoid having such complaints raised again the next time, I felt that the Appointment Meetings should be a place for constantly discussing such matters.

Tomikawa
When you heard the formation change proposal, what was your immediate reaction?

Chairman Toyoda
I thought, “Why don’t we discuss it?”

Tomikawa
At the press conference, when I asked Mr. Sato if he felt that his three-year term as president was a bit short, he replied, “Honestly, I do think it’s short. But the pace of the auto industry doesn’t ease up.”

Chairman Toyoda
When I heard about President Sato’s plans along with the other Appointment Meeting members, I said to him, “So that’s your decision as CEO.” And I also said, “Don’t think of it as just three years.”
You know, I stepped down when I did because it was really tough for me, but in terms of the fight to restore what makes us Toyota, I actually wanted to carry on a bit longer. The job was half done. To turn us into the kind of company that earns praise for making great cars and having many talented people, I needed a little more time.
Within that context, President Sato’s joy came from creating cars that made me happy. So I said to him, “Weren’t these 17 years a collaborative effort? Turning Toyota into a company that makes ever-better cars is something the two of us did together.” When I said that, his expression changed. 

Tomikawa
All going well, you had intended to stay on for maybe another three years, but the withdrawal from the Russian market and other factors took quite a toll in many ways, both mentally and physically. Instead, Mr. Sato stepped in for those three years—is that how you see it? 

Chairman Toyoda
Yes, that’s how I see it. Through our collaborative effort, I feel that we were able to center the company’s operations around products, ever-better cars. Right now is a difficult time for Japan, isn’t it? As it is for the world. And of course the automotive industry. But if the auto industry doesn’t stay strong, the country will suffer. I’m not talking just about Japan, or just about Toyota—the automotive sector of any country is a core industry sustaining its economy. And now these automakers that have carried their nations upon their shoulders are grappling with new challenges, such as CASE technologies and carbon neutrality, and there are no longer any clear-cut answers. In the past, we had some companies leading the pack and rivals trying to outdo them, but now, as automakers seek to become mobility companies, a new race is underway: who will be the first to show what a mobility company looks like? I think that makes this a very difficult time for Toyota. If there was a clear answer, we could just pursue it with our existing functional specialization. But at the press conference announcing the leadership change, incoming President Kon said he wants to be like Taizo Ishida. In my understanding, Taizo Ishida was someone who, after fiercely opposing Kiichiro Toyoda and his colleagues in the beginning, ended up providing tremendous support. He worked to build robust foundations that would allow them to focus on making better cars, no matter what. Incoming President Kon said the same thing. I think it was a good way to hand over the baton.

Speaking about the automotive sector being one of the country’s core industries, President Sato has also taken on the role of JAMA chairman. That in itself is a big responsibility. In President Sato’s case, he is also serving as a vice chair of Keidanren, as well as being Toyota’s president, which is a lot to put onto one person’s shoulders. In that sense, I think the company made a good decision. The chief industry officer position has been set up as separate from the CEO, helping Toyota play a strong role within the industry, and thereby contribute to Japan. I imagine that was the real intent behind the leadership change, looking back on it. If I had to sum it up, I would say it’s about making Japan better, with the auto industry leading the way, and Toyota working hard to play its part.

Tomikawa
Watching the recent JAMA meeting, he’s already exercising leadership in bringing the companies together with a shared purpose.

Chairman Toyoda
I myself served as JAMA chairman for quite a long time, and I think as chief industry officer, it could actually make it easier to get others on board. During my tenure, no matter what I did people would say, “You’re only looking out for Toyota.” Even though I knew that wasn’t the case, sometimes the outside world just doesn’t see it your way. In that sense, I think the new arrangement might actually make the job easier.

Tomikawa
We’ve gone from Akio Toyoda, a guy who loves cars, to President Sato, who loves making cars, and now incoming President Kon, who describes himself as “a guy who loves money.” What did you think of those words?

Chairman Toyoda
To give a peek behind the curtain, I said that I wasn’t going to appear at the press conference. Initially, I had been asked to take part. Usually, for a leadership change, the chairperson would be there, as was the case when I became president, so everyone asked me to participate. But I told them, if I were there, then all the questions would come to me. And it would seem as though I was involved in these personnel decisions, even though I wasn’t. That’s why I was against it, but I offered to assist. I told the two of them, “We (Chairman Toyoda and President Sato) were all about loving cars, so as the incoming president, you should be the guy who loves money—say ‘I love money!’” Mr. Kon didn’t like the idea and wanted to be left out of it, but I assured him that was the way to go. After much deliberation, he went with “focused on money and numbers.” He really agonized over it, and in the end, I think he found the right words. But I did tell him to say he loves money.

Tomikawa
That’s why when I asked Mr. Kon, “So you’re a guy who loves money and numbers?” he replied, “I’m a guy who loves money.” Your words came out in the end.

Chairman Toyoda
I told him to say it. That was my only involvement.

Tomikawa
That was the only part you played in that press conference.

Chairman Toyoda
And the person with the biggest grin on his face was President Sato. Happy to be on the “car lovers” team.

Tomikawa
These are the kinds of fascinating behind-the-scenes stories we bring you on this podcast. Voice-Only Toyota Times News is the place where Akio Toyoda shares the real, unvarnished details, so we hope all Toyota employees are tuning in.

Chairman Toyoda
I really think they should. Why wouldn’t they be listening? I mean, if you’re driving to work, you can listen to a podcast, right?

Tomikawa
We have 80,000 employees in Japan, and yet the podcast gets around 10,000 or 20,000 streams each time. It would be nice to have a few more listeners, especially since you won’t hear stories like this anywhere else.

Chairman Toyoda
Instead of coming to hear me give a lecture or something, I definitely think this is better.

Tomikawa
You lay it all out there.

Chairman Toyoda
I don’t hold anything back. These days, even if you try to keep something hidden, it’ll come out anyway. That said, TV is even more revealing, since your face is out there. With a podcast, you still have some options.

Tomikawa
But focusing solely on the voice makes it more intimate.

Chairman Toyoda
Yes, that’s why I want people to listen. Then they will pay attention to my words.

Tomikawa
I’m the only one who can see your face while listening to you speak. But I have to say, your facial expression always mirrors your words. That’s how I know you’re not lying—I can see it in your face.

Chairman Toyoda
If this was me lying, I should take up acting.

Tomikawa
You’re good at acting too, right? I know how well you can perform.

Chairman Toyoda
I’ve never done any acting.

Tomikawa
What about filming those parody videos for employees, or commercials?

Chairman Toyoda
Those are all about the mismatch. When the chairman or a member of the founding family jokes around like that, it makes them more relatable (laughs).

Tomikawa
Well, they are really funny and make you more relatable, so that was intentional?

Chairman Toyoda
Also, you know, even though I tell people to take an interest and just come chat with me, they don’t come. By showing that side of me, I’m hoping people will feel comfortable dropping by, but it’s not as simple as that.

Tomikawa
But you’ve got some acting talent.

Chairman Toyoda
Maybe I’m too good…

Tomikawa
And your secretary, Mr. Sugiura—sorry to mention him by name.

Chairman Toyoda
He’s gotten really good, hasn’t he? We’ve done three projects: Arigato Fest, the U.S. National Dealer Meeting, and now our Dealership Representatives Meeting in Japan. Although all of them were closed-door events.
We really reveal all on this podcast.

Tomikawa
That’s right. I’m just trying to keep up with you, and it comes out.

Chairman Toyoda
And that’s why more people should listen.

Tomikawa
Okay, to wrap things up nicely, let me ask: what would you like to see from Mr. Kon as president?

Chairman Toyoda
Hmm… “Money” (laughs).
Just kidding, just kidding. I want him to give people free rein. One thing about Mr. Kon is that everyone finds him easy to talk to. I think his approach will be to invite people in and process what they say in his own way, taking responsibility while engaging everyone in the discussion, without being dogmatic or biased. I think this is a great opportunity. Compared to my time at the helm, President Sato’s tenure was also an opportunity. I hope we make the most of this one. In my case, no matter how much I act the joker, people will always feel a bit intimidated or daunted. Even doing this podcast, that won’t change. But the thing is, that makes us weaker. And as I said at the beginning, if we become weak, the country falls apart, to put it dramatically.
That’s why Toyota has to stay strong. I think Mr. Kon is someone who can carry out that mission without any swagger. And on top of that, he spent several years as my secretary. Those years were a truly difficult period, starting with the U.S. congressional hearings and the Great East Japan Earthquake. He was there for all of that, observing how I behaved and what I said. Having absorbed and processed all of that, at some point, he will no doubt channel it into his own style of leadership.    

Tomikawa
I hope everyone will keep those words in mind as we watch to see how Mr. Kon guides this company forward. Ah, thank goodness.

Chairman Toyoda
For what?

Tomikawa
For wrapping it up nicely. I don’t know what I would have done if you left it at “money.” Akio, thank you as always.

Chairman Toyoda
Thank you.