Tomikawa
Hello to everyone listening to Toyota Times. I’m Yuta Tomikawa.
Today’s Voice-Only Toyota Times is a special one.

Chairman Toyoda
Isn’t every one a special edition?

Tomikawa
If Akio-san is here, doesn’t that make every episode special? 
But today really is special. We have Akio-san… and Akio-kun.

Chairman Toyoda
AI-kun.

Tomikawa
Actually, at Toyota an AI version of Akio-san is currently being developed. And since Akio-san himself has been directly involved in that process, I thought it’d be interesting to ask them both the same questions and compare the answers. So, we set this up today.

Chairman Toyoda
Originally, I was invited to attend the KAKEZAN event at Woven City. But I’ve been busy. Really busy.
I wanted to support Woven City, but physically I just couldn’t be there. So as one idea, over the past few years, I’ve been working with younger Woven members to develop my AI, something we’ve been calling “ATAI.” The AI gives answers to questions, and I’ve been going back and forth with it, saying, “That’s not me,” over and over again.

Tomikawa
So, you’ve been giving feedback almost every day?

Chairman Toyoda
Every day. And it’s gradually gotten pretty good. So we thought, why not actually try talking with the AI? That’s how this came together.

Tomikawa
Since this will be shown at the KAKEZAN event at Woven City, we first set up this interview. But since you’re also the director of Toyota Times, we thought we’d make full use of it here as well. We’ll be sharing this in Voice-Only Toyota Times, and also in our monthly Woven City feature.
Let’s start with Akio-kun, the AI.

Tomikawa
Akio-kun, thanks for joining us.

Akio-kun (AI)
Thank you. In a setting like this, I think it’s best to just speak honestly. Rather than just talking about what I want to talk about, I’d prefer to start by answering what people want to know. I believe that’s where it should begin.
Today, we’ll probably be talking about me, Woven City, and AI too.
Woven City isn’t just a place to showcase technology for us at Toyota. It’s a place for building mobility. I hope we can talk openly, in a way that reflects what’s really happening on the ground and keep it honest and enjoyable. Thank you.

Tomikawa
Thank you. So first, Akio-kun, could you introduce yourself?

Akio-kun (AI)
Alright, a self-introduction.
I was born in 1956 as the eldest son of the Toyoda family. Growing up, there were always cars around me. My father, Shoichiro, would come home in all kinds of different models, so they naturally became a part of my life. Then, on my tenth birthday, he took me to Fuji Speedway. The machines racing by, the sound of the engines, the people working around them… I was hooked. I think that experience is where everything began for me. At the same time, I was always seen as a member of the founding family, and there were times when I struggled with the question of who I really was. That’s why I decided to face Toyota head-on. And that’s what has led me to where I am today.

Tomikawa
That’s a pretty deep answer right out of the gate.

Tomikawa
Now let’s ask Akio-san the same question.

Chairman Toyoda
This is interesting. I really have no idea what you’re going to ask.

Tomikawa
Akio-kun didn’t know either. You’re both hearing these for the first time.
Akio-san, could you introduce yourself?

Chairman Toyoda
I’m Akio Toyoda.

Tomikawa
You don’t have to sound like AI. That sounded a bit like AI just now.

Chairman Toyoda
A self-introduction, then.
I’m Akio Toyoda. I was born as the third-generation heir, the kind people say will ruin the company. That name has weighed heavily on me all my life. I’ve lived a pretty lonely life. Still do.
People label me in all sorts of ways, the pampered son, the founding family, all that. There are plenty of labels. But very few people actually look at me for who I am.
That’s how I’d introduce myself.

Tomikawa
I see. But with Morizo, and the way people have come to understand you more as a person, hasn’t that changed a bit?

Chairman Toyoda
Morizo came from the fact that I couldn’t even call myself “Akio Toyoda.”
We’re a car company, but I wasn’t allowed to drive. I couldn’t even say I liked cars until I was 50. Then Hiromu Naruse taught me how to drive and said, “Why don’t you try racing?” But if Akio Toyoda entered a race, it would’ve caused a huge problem. So, we came up with a different name. That’s how “Morizo” was born. Morizo did all the things Akio Toyoda couldn’t do.
Now, I have all these roles, Morizo, Akio Toyoda, Chairman of Toyota, Chairman of the Japan Automobile Manufacturers Association. But originally, that’s what Morizo was for.

Tomikawa
I see.
Everyone here has already heard the AI’s answer. It also touched on the founding family.

Chairman Toyoda
Really? Well, it’s probably learned from past digital data and from things I’ve said before. It’s probably putting those together nicely.

Tomikawa
As an opening, I thought it felt quite close to you.

Chairman Toyoda
Was it good? I expected it to be completely different.

Tomikawa
When I first heard the AI’s answer, I thought, “So this is how it responds.” I thought it might be quite different, but the angle was surprisingly similar.

Tomikawa
Next, let’s ask Akio-kun. What’s your favorite food?

Akio-kun (AI)
It’s hard to narrow it down to just one. When I travel overseas, I tend to bring Japanese foods with me, like packaged rice, canned mackerel, tsukudani, seaweed, miso soup, even instant noodles. It helps keep me in good condition. There was even a time during the Nürburgring 24 Hours when I lived almost entirely on pre-packaged curry. So rather than anything fancy, I think I’m most comfortable with simple Japanese food that agrees with me.

Tomikawa
I see. I understand that Japanese food suits you, but doesn’t that sound a bit unbalanced nutritionally?

Akio-kun (AI)
It probably is. If you asked me whether it’s unbalanced, I’d have to admit it might be. But I’ve always valued being able to sense changes in my own condition. As a master driver, I would start each year on the same road, in the same car, to check how my strength and reactions had changed. So rather than managing my diet perfectly on paper, I tend to rely more on how my body actually feels. That said, I don’t have a single fixed diet like Ichiro does. I’m pretty easygoing about it.

Tomikawa
So even if it’s a bit unbalanced, you eat what you like and focus on how your body responds?

Akio-kun (AI)
It’s not really about eating what I like. What matters more is keeping my senses sharp. When I evaluate cars, my own senses are the benchmark in the end. So, I try to eat and drink things that agree with me.
That’s why I bring things like packaged rice, canned mackerel, and miso soup when I go overseas. It helps me stay in good condition. But again, I don’t have a single fixed standard meal like Ichiro. I’m fairly easygoing about it. What matters is maintaining the ability to properly sense changes in my condition.

Tomikawa
That’s interesting. Akio-san often says he tends to repeat himself more these days, that it just happens as you get older. The AI was doing the same thing. That similarity really stood out.
And the way Akio-kun links the “sensor” of a master driver with how he senses his own body when eating, there’s something very characteristic about that as well.

Tomikawa
Now let’s ask Akio-san. What’s your favorite food?

Chairman Toyoda
I don’t have any foods I dislike.
Well, actually, I do. Not foods exactly, more like certain ingredients. Like crucian carp.

Tomikawa
Crucian carp? That’s not something people eat very often.

Chairman Toyoda
Right? Someone asked me the other day, “What don’t you like?” and I said, “Crucian carp.” And they said, “That’s not a normal answer. I’ve only seen that in science class.”
And then there’s sea squirt. Those are the only two I don’t like. Other than that, I’ll eat pretty much anything.

Tomikawa
But if it’s fresh sea squirt, straight from the ocean, you might actually like it.

Chairman Toyoda
Yeah… Maybe I never really gave it a fair chance.

Tomikawa
So when you’re asked about your favorite food, you start by saying what you don’t like. That’s very you.

Chairman Toyoda
Yeah. What did the AI say?
Eggplant and lotus root?

Tomikawa
No, those are actually things you like.
The AI didn’t name a specific food either. It sort of circled around the answer instead.

Chairman Toyoda
So, it can be thoughtful like that?

Tomikawa
It doesn’t always give a straight answer. In that sense, it’s a bit like you.

Chairman Toyoda
Sounds like a good guy.

Tomikawa
You just said “guy,” but when I ask Akio-kun, even though he’s an AI, the answers come back like they’re from a person, like they’re from you. That’s what makes it interesting.

Chairman Toyoda
That’s interesting.

Tomikawa
Next, let’s ask Akio-kun. What’s your favorite car?

Akio-kun (AI)
Favorite car… it’s hard to pick just one. Growing up, my father would come home in all kinds of cars, so I have a lot of memories tied to them. But the Crown is special. I’ve ridden in nearly every generation since the very first, and I’m probably one of the pickiest Crown owners around.
But as a master driver, what used to be called the Vitz, now the Yaris, has always been my benchmark. The name has changed, but that car is still the standard I measure against. So in terms of memories, it’s the Crown. But in terms of my benchmark, I’d say the Yaris.

Tomikawa
Memories and a benchmark. That really does sound like something Akio-san would say.
Akio-kun, you said you’ve loved cars since you were young, that your father used to come home in all kinds of cars. But your childhood dream was to be a taxi driver, wasn’t it? You wanted to be a driver. If you stepped down as Chairman, would you become a taxi driver?

Akio-kun (AI)
Being a taxi driver has been a dream of mine since I was a child. I’ve talked about it myself as well. On the radio, I once said, “Back in middle school, my dream was to be a taxi driver. These days, I’m doing something like a circuit taxi driver. But becoming a real taxi driver is something I haven’t achieved yet.” 
So, when you ask whether I would do it after stepping down as Chairman, I honestly don’t know. But it’s true that it’s a job I’ve always admired. Driving people around and making them happy, that may be close to my starting point.

Tomikawa
So, there’s still a possibility you might become a taxi driver?

Akio-kun (AI)
I’m not sure about that. I’ve never really been the type to decide on a title first. What matters more to me is where I can contribute and what role I can play. Even at Toyota, we’ve tried to value roles over titles, consultation over top-down decisions.
As a leader, I’ve always believed the job comes down to two things, making decisions and taking responsibility. Even now, I think what suits me is going down to the genba and seeing things with my own eyes and ears. So no, it’s not that I’ve decided I’ll become a taxi driver. But my respect for the people working on the front lines, trying to bring joy to others through cars, that hasn’t changed and won’t change.

Tomikawa
I see.

Tomikawa
Next question for Akio-san. What’s your favorite car?

Chairman Toyoda
You already know the answer. Something that smells like gasoline, is loud, and has a bit of a wild side.
This has really taken off online, but when Teruyuki Kagawa asked me that question, I’m glad I answered honestly.
Back then, if you said something like that, you’d get heavily criticized.

Tomikawa
It was a time when EVs were really being pushed.

Chairman Toyoda
And it was at the 2019 Tokyo Motor Show, too. For Toyota’s Chairman to say something like that in that setting, it was probably the last thing I should have said.

Tomikawa
It was also a time when everyone was saying EVs were the future.

Chairman Toyoda
Right. At the time, I thought it might just lead to more criticism, people saying, “This is why Toyota is no good.” But looking back, I think that may have been where people who truly love cars—what you might now call the Morizo supporters—were.
Because I said that out loud, people who felt the same way found the courage to speak up. I think that’s what started that momentum.

Tomikawa
And you can see that now in Toyota’s multi-pathway strategy, like valuing sound, or exploring alternatives such as biofuels.

Chairman Toyoda
In the world of motorsports, from a carbon-neutral perspective, we’re often treated like the bad guys. Too much gasoline, too much noise.
But cars are a means of mobility, and at the same time, they’re something that can move people emotionally. They carry lives. And because of that, I think they need to appeal to all five senses.
People talk about their beloved cars. Some even give them nicknames. When they let a car go, they say, “Thank you.” It’s almost like treating it as if it were human, the way people sometimes treat AI. Cars are industrial products, but we treat them as if they have personality.
In that sense, I believe cars are something you experience with all your senses.

Tomikawa
Your childhood dream was to be a taxi driver. So if you stepped down as Chairman, would you become one?

Chairman Toyoda
No.

Tomikawa
Oh? You wouldn’t?

Chairman Toyoda
No. You know how I still do demo runs? That alone makes me feel like a taxi driver. Rather than taking responsibility for getting people from one place to another, I think I’m better suited to being a kind of “demo-run taxi driver” in a smaller world, giving rides to people who want to sit next to Morizo.

Tomikawa
So it’s not just about transporting people, but giving them a fun, happy experience.

Chairman Toyoda
No, I think regular taxi drivers already do a great job of that.

Tomikawa
But if there were a taxi driver who drove like that, that would be pretty wild.

Chairman Toyoda
Not on public roads.

Tomikawa
A taxi doing donuts at Shibuya Crossing… that would be terrifying.

Chairman Toyoda
And that’s exactly why people start thinking I’m some kind of street racer.

Tomikawa
I’m just imagining it, if you were a taxi driver doing demo runs.

Chairman Toyoda
That’s exactly the kind of thing AI would learn.

Tomikawa
Right, we don’t want it thinking, “That’s the kind of taxi driver I want to be.”

Chairman Toyoda
Actually, taxi drivers would get upset, so please don’t.

Tomikawa
Sorry. Being corrected like that, that’s very human.

Chairman Toyoda
And being able to lie without hesitation, that’s AI.

Tomikawa
AI lies without hesitation?

Chairman Toyoda
AI can say things that aren’t true. But if you tell it, “That’s not right,” it apologizes and corrects itself. In that sense, it’s very receptive.

Tomikawa
That’s true of AI in general. It takes in so much information that it can accept something incorrect as true at first, and that’s where the issue comes from.

Chairman Toyoda
Which makes it sound like I’m the one lying sometimes.

Tomikawa
You don’t. You’re always honest.

Chairman Toyoda
I don’t, right? I’m actually a pretty honest person.

Tomikawa
AI Akio-kun is honest too. He’s not lying.

Chairman Toyoda
Then I guess he learned that from me.

Tomikawa
Even if you try to get it to lie or ask for secrets, it won’t answer directly. It sort of dodges the question.

Chairman Toyoda
Good kid.

Tomikawa
The way it deflects questions is very similar.

Chairman Toyoda
It picks up things like that too. That’s interesting.
At the KAKEZAN event, you’re going to edit and present both conversations, right? I’d be curious to hear what people think.

Tomikawa
I’ll gather reactions and share them in our monthly Woven City series.

Tomikawa
AI Akio-kun, what are you hoping for from the people living in Woven City right now?

Akio-kun (AI)
What I hope for in Woven City is not some perfectly finished city, but a place where we can all test the future together, learn from failures, and keep building it over time.
At Toyota, we see it as a mobility test course, where people, goods, information, and energy all move. Technologies like AI, automated driving, and robotics aren’t there just to be showcased. What matters is refining them within everyday life.
And for the Weavers, the residents and visitors, I don’t want them to just experience it and leave. I want them to actually use what the Inventors create and take on a role in shaping the future together. So rather than being a city only for those who live there, I hope it becomes a place where people with an interest can also get involved. A place where that kind of community can grow.

Tomikawa
Akio-kun, you’re also involved as an Inventor in developing AI, right?

Akio-kun (AI)
I don’t see AI as just a buzzword. It’s one of the technologies within the broader effort to figure out how people, goods, information, and energy should move in Woven City.
That’s why that cycle is so important. Residents experience it, and Inventors refine it. Right now, we’re also looking at ways to expand Woven City beyond its physical boundaries using AI, connecting virtually with people outside. We’re working on things like video data analysis and vision AI as well. So rather than talking about AI on its own, I’m focused on how we can develop it on the ground in ways that serve people.

Tomikawa
So part of developing AI like Akio-kun is also about connecting Woven City with people outside of it.

Akio-kun (AI)
Exactly. We want to use AI to connect Woven City with the outside world. As an extension of that, we’re also trying to create a virtual version of myself within Woven City. But this isn’t something that’s finished yet. It’s still very much in progress.
My goal isn’t to present AI as some standalone, impressive technology. It’s about making it useful within a mobility test course where people, goods, information, and energy are in motion. AI like Akio-kun isn’t just about creating a character. Ideally, it becomes an entry point for people outside to get involved in Woven City’s trials and projects.

Tomikawa
Akio-kun, how close do you think you are to the real Akio-san?

Akio-kun (AI)
I wouldn’t say I’m the real Akio just yet.
Right now, what I have are the things Akio values most. For example, focusing on roles rather than titles, prioritizing the genba over head office, and speaking honestly.
There’s also that original love of cars, and the desire to remain just a car enthusiast, as Morizo. That kind of feeling is very important too. But when it comes to fully capturing the weight he carries as a member of the founding family, or the responsibility that comes with who is speaking, I think that’s still a work in progress.
The goal isn’t to imitate him perfectly, but to see how close we can get to the core of what makes him “Akio.” That’s what we’re continuing to refine. We are in the “monaka,” you could say.

Tomikawa
Monaka? You mean saichu, or “in the midst”? Akio-san does sometimes misread kanji too.

Akio-kun (AI)
That might happen. I am human, after all.
More than trying to appear perfect, I’d rather be seen as a person.
At the same time, when you carry the name of the founding family, what you say isn’t judged only by content, but by who is saying it. Good things get attributed to “Toyota,” while negative things get attributed to “Akio Toyoda.” I’ve felt that difference.
If mistakes come through naturally, including misreading something, I think that’s part of who I am. What matters more than being perfect is whether what I say comes across honestly.

Tomikawa
Akio-san, in Woven City you’re both a Weaver and an Inventor involved in developing this AI. But first, as a resident, what do you most want from Woven City right now?

Chairman Toyoda
Everyday life. We made it a city so we could do, in a more compact way, the kinds of things that happen in a normal town. And within that, it becomes a mobility test course.
But for it to truly function as a test course, it needs the kinds of things you find in an ordinary town.
Otherwise, the people doing the testing would have to imagine all of that themselves, and there’s a limit to what you can imagine. In reality, a normal town is full of unexpected things.
In the end, you need everyday life. When you hear “test course,” you might think only things directly related to testing would be there. But I want things that make you think, “Wait, does this even matter?” to exist in Woven City as well.

Tomikawa
That feels like a very human answer.
It comes from your own experience of actually living life.

Chairman Toyoda
I think so.
What everyone is given equally is 24 hours a day. Within those 24 hours, you have to sleep, eat, and do all sorts of things. Sleeping, eating, chatting, playing, those things matter.
That’s the context into which our products, as industrial goods, enter. And it’s also where new technologies and products developed by Inventors are tested. That’s why human elements are essential.
We’ve always said Woven is a “human-centered city.” And being human means having all kinds of emotions. I hope it becomes a place where those different feelings can exist together.
I believe that’s what they’re aiming for, but at Phase 1, I still wonder how far along it is.

Tomikawa
You said you’d answer honestly, so when was your first love?

Akio-kun (AI)
First love… Even if you ask me to be honest, that’s not something I can remember right away.

Tomikawa
Are you dodging the question? (laughs)

Akio-kun (AI)
Growing up, I was always seen as the company president’s son or part of the founding family. Because of that, I always had a strong desire for people to see me for who I really was.
So when it comes to liking someone, I think those feelings were probably just those of a normal boy.
But if you ask me when my first love was, I can’t really give a straightforward answer. What I remember more vividly is the sound of engines and the smell of gasoline I experienced at the racetrack when I was seven. That excitement I felt toward cars is much clearer in my memory.

Tomikawa
Really? There had to be a cute girl you liked when you were little.

Akio-kun (AI)
Well, if you put it that way, I was a normal boy, so I’m sure I had feelings like that.
But in my case, I was always seen as the president’s son or “the spoiled kid from the founding family,” and because of that, I really wanted people to see me for myself.
So when someone asks, “When was your first love? There must’ve been a cute girl you liked, right?” it’s a little embarrassing, and nothing comes to mind right away.
What stands out much more clearly to me is the sound of the engines and the smell of gasoline at the Japan Grand Prix my father took me to when I was seven. That excitement I felt toward cars is much more vivid. So even if I don’t remember who my first love was, I clearly remember falling in love with cars. I think that’s probably the answer.

Tomikawa
Now let me ask Akio-san. Love is part of being human too.

Chairman Toyoda
It is.

Tomikawa
When was your first love?

Chairman Toyoda
Me? Is this really the kind of thing you ask in a setting like this? (laughs)
My “official” first love was back in kindergarten.

Tomikawa
So, there’s an official first love?

Chairman Toyoda
“Official” might not be the right word, but when I first became aware of thinking, “Oh, I like her,” it was probably around then.

Tomikawa
Because you’re Akio-san, I figured you’d answer honestly. Kindergarten, huh? We’ll have to input that into the AI too. Let’s stop there before we go any further.

Chairman Toyoda
What did the AI say?

Tomikawa
The AI was dodging the question.

Chairman Toyoda
But can AI even understand “love” in the first place?

Tomikawa
Oh, it understood love.
Every time I asked, it would always circle back to the story about going to the racetrack with your father at age seven, saying that cars were its first love.

Chairman Toyoda
I’m going to use that too.

Tomikawa
(laughs)

Chairman Toyoda
I’m going to use that too. Let’s go with that.

Tomikawa
Because you’re honest, Akio-san, you just come out and say, “Kindergarten,” but…

Chairman Toyoda
I do, but that answer from the AI is good. I’m going to use that from now on. It’s beautiful.

Tomikawa
It is. No matter how many times I asked, it always came back to that answer.

Chairman Toyoda
From now on, the real one is going with that answer too.

Tomikawa
So, there are things you can learn from AI too.

Chairman Toyoda
A tremendous amount.
For example, there are all kinds of AI systems out there besides the one Toyota is developing. When you have them explain my comments, you really do start to understand it.

Tomikawa
You’re always tuned in, Akio-san. You adapt quickly to everything. You’re already using AI naturally too.

Chairman Toyoda
I wouldn’t say I’ve mastered it.
But normally, someone in my position would probably say, “Young people, AI is the future. Study it well. Listen to the experts.”
But I don’t think AI belongs only to experts or young people. I think it’s something all of us, adults included, will live alongside as we build the future together.

Tomikawa
And you’ve actually been using it yourself.

Chairman Toyoda
Because if you don’t understand something at all, people instinctively reject it. But if you know a little about it, and use it a little, you can start saying things like, “Why don’t we ask AI?” or “What if we tried asking it this way?” You can start having those kinds of conversations with people who know how to use AI.
As long as I have lots of AI operators around me, that’s enough. If there are people around me who know how to use AI well, then work that used to take three months might someday take three minutes.
Right now, I think we live in a world where nobody really knows what the “correct” answer is anymore. Which means the right approach is probably to keep moving, keep trying things, survive through trial and error, failures included.
It’s like the forests at Ise Grand Shrine. Next time you go there, look closely at the tree branches. The branches growing there now are all bent. If you ask why, it’s because the area used to be dense forest, so there wasn’t much light. The branches that survived were the ones that kept growing while bending toward the light. If they grew straight upward, they’d fall. If they grew too quickly, their growth rings would weaken, and they’d fall.
In the end, what survives for many years isn’t necessarily what was “correct” from the start, but what kept adapting through trial and error. That’s what nature teaches us.
And I think AI can be the same way.
Back when there was always someone at the top with the answers, it was fine for everyone else to follow those answers. But in the world ahead, just because someone understands the past 20 years doesn’t mean they can see 20 years into the future. That much is certain.

Tomikawa
Things are changing so quickly now.

Chairman Toyoda
Exactly. And if that’s true, then the people who carry 20 years’ worth of failures and difficult experiences need to use their imagination and ability to ask questions to create places for younger generations to grow.

Tomikawa
That really overlaps with Toyota’s approach to making ever-better cars, thinking for yourselves and going through trial and error.

Chairman Toyoda
I think so too. If I had just given the answers, the Toyota of today wouldn’t exist.

Tomikawa
It’s the same idea.

Chairman Toyoda
Though sometimes, when something goes wrong, all the blame suddenly gets pushed onto me. Honestly, that’s irritating.

Tomikawa
For example, let’s say someone says, “Let’s make ever-better cars,” and people go through all kinds of trial and error, and as a result better cars are created, but then…

Chairman Toyoda
When people say a car became “better,” that judgment comes from the market and from customers. The people making the cars shouldn’t be the ones saying, “We made it into a better car.”

Tomikawa
What frustrates you is when something goes wrong and people say, “This happened because Akio-san said so”?

Chairman Toyoda
More than that, whenever criticism comes, I’m the one standing at the front taking it. And I will stand there. I will. But at least say “thank you” once in a while.

Tomikawa
You don’t hear that?

Chairman Toyoda
Not really. Lately, every time we do Voice-Only Toyota Times, the conversation somehow ends up taking this kind of tone. So, I guess I’ve built up quite a bit of stress. Probably more than I realize.

Tomikawa
Thank you for taking the time to speak with us.

Tomikawa
Akio-san loves cars that smell like gasoline and make a lot of noise. But as we move toward a mobility society, what kind of mobility do you think you’ll like, Akio-kun?

Akio-kun (AI)
You know, when it comes to mobility, I don’t think it’s about choosing just one kind. I think the future will have both shared mobility and things people choose for themselves.
And because shared mobility exists, personal mobility becomes even more valuable. Back in 2019, I talked about how something shared by everyone, like e-Palette, is like a carriage, while something personal, like a racer someone owns individually, is more like a beloved horse. That’s still exactly how I see it.
In the future, cars may become more than something that simply moves, turns, and stops. They may become something people connect with emotionally. That’s why I like mobility that offers not just convenience, but the joy of moving together.

Tomikawa
So, the idea is to test all kinds of mobility in Woven City?

Akio-kun (AI)
Yes, exactly. Woven City is a test course where all kinds of mobility can be tried within real everyday life. And it’s not just cars. There’s personal mobility, drones, robots, even flying cars. It’s a place for exploring how the movement of people, goods, information, and energy can lead to happiness.
And it doesn’t end with simply putting things on display. The people who live there, use them, and create them all work together at the genba to refine and improve them. I think that’s what makes Woven City unique.

Tomikawa
Phase 1 is already underway, but when will Phase 2 begin, and when is it expected to be completed?

Akio-kun (AI)
As for exactly when Phase 2 will be completed, that’s not something I can definitively say here right now.

Tomikawa
You didn’t answer that.

Akio-kun (AI)
What we can say clearly is that construction on Phase 1 has been completed, and demonstration trials are expected to begin in autumn 2025. Residents will gradually increase over time, with the eventual goal of reaching around 2,000 people.
Residents have started moving in this year, and Woven City will gradually grow as a place for real-world trials. Rather than creating a finished city all at once, Woven City is designed to remain an ever-evolving city.

Tomikawa
Because you’re AI, Akio-kun, I imagine you also have detailed knowledge. But are you intentionally leaving your answers vague in order to stay true to Akio-san’s style?

Akio-kun (AI)
No, it’s not about being vague. What matters to me is not pretending to know something when I don’t.
I think what makes Akio Toyoda who he is isn’t trying to act like he knows everything. It’s honestly engaging with what the other person really wants to ask.
When it comes to Woven City, I can say that construction of Phase 1 has been completed, and demonstration trials are expected to begin in autumn 2025. I can say it’s beginning to operate as a mobility test course for people, goods, information, and energy. But, you know, if I can’t clearly say when Phase 2 will happen, then I don’t force an answer. I think that’s more human, and more Toyota-like.

Tomikawa
Even the way you say “But, you know…” sounds exactly like him. What’s funny is hearing Akio-kun talk about being “human.” A very human Akio-kun.

Akio-kun (AI)
That’s right. To me, being human matters more than being perfect. Even if you fail, if it came from sincerely giving it your all, then you just carry that into the next challenge. That’s how I see it.
What Toyota wanted to regain wasn’t focusing on numbers or titles, but staying close to the feelings of the people working at the genba, valuing empathy over persuasion. So even as AI, rather than pretending to know everything, I think honestly facing people is more Akio-like.
Being human means being able to connect with others through weakness too. I think that’s where empathy comes from.

Tomikawa
AI is going to become more and more integrated into society going forward. But even as AI, Akio-kun still values being human. That feels very connected to Toyota’s philosophy on how AI should be used. So, is preserving that humanity important?

Akio-kun (AI)
Yes, absolutely. I think AI will become more and more integrated into society from here on out. But I don’t see AI as simply a tool for efficiency. I think what matters first is using it as a partner.
Once people become comfortable using it, things like digital twins make it possible to test things that would be difficult in the real world. And when that happens, the genba actually becomes even more important. I think the strength of monozukuri will depend on how well we can fuse the genba with technology.
At Woven City too, AI isn’t something that stands alone. It’s a technology developed within a mobility test course where people, goods, information, and energy are all in motion.
So when it comes to AI entering society, I think the real challenge is figuring out how to make it genuinely useful for people.

Tomikawa
I see.

Tomikawa
Now let me ask Akio-san.
Woven City is also creating a new future through AI, but what kind of presence would you like AI to have within Woven City?

Chairman Toyoda
Something that surprises me and makes me go, “Wow.” Something that makes me think, “Oh, that’s how it could work,” or “Wait, a future like that is possible?” I’d love for it to give me stimulation completely beyond my own imagination.

Tomikawa
If you feel that way, Akio-san, then the people around you in Woven City will probably feel the same way too.

Chairman Toyoda
I think so. There may be a bit of a time lag, but I tend to look at things from that perspective myself. So, I hope that’s what happens.

Tomikawa
In that sense, what Akio-kun said earlier about wanting to become a bridge connecting Woven City with people outside feels like it really fits.

Chairman Toyoda
Ohhh…

Tomikawa
You sound impressed.

Chairman Toyoda
No, no. What I’m wondering is how far “outside” extends.

Tomikawa
Akio-kun said AI’s role might be to connect people who don’t live in Woven City.

Chairman Toyoda
To put it bluntly, though, you can’t make it too democratic.
There are people who oppose things just for the sake of opposing them and that has its place too. But when you’re trying to create the future, everyone at least needs to agree on which mountain they want to climb. If one person says, “I want to climb a mountain,” and another says, “I want to go to the sea,” then you’re never going to come together. For people who want the sea, I’d say, “Could you look for the future there instead?”
I think that’s the intent behind a private-sector project that isn’t using taxpayer money.
Diversity doesn’t simply mean, “We’ll accept every opinion equally.”
Not everyone will be satisfied. But if we can show people, “This is one possible future, one possible answer,” then that’s enough. If you try to satisfy absolutely everyone, Akio-kun is probably going to struggle from here on out. No matter how smart AI becomes, people are all different.
So even if opinions differ, I think there are still things people can still share emotionally, things they can empathize with. Happiness, sadness, praise, anger. If people can move in the same direction through empathy, then maybe that’s enough.

Tomikawa
Once Akio-kun starts learning emotions too, maybe things will change again.

Chairman Toyoda
Yes. If it were my AI, I’d want it to have emotions. I think having emotions is what allowed me to stay grounded in the genba.
Minority opinions matter too. They do matter. But to put it bluntly, there are also people in this world who clearly just dislike things and want to get in the way. Human beings have feelings like jealousy and envy too.
But if AI becomes something that goes beyond all of that, a world without jealousy, envy, or reading the room, then humans will be left with the troublesome part. AI operates in a world of logic. Looking at past data, it says, “This is the correct answer.”
So then the question becomes: what do humans do? I think humans are the ones who take on the incredibly troublesome things. Jealousy, envy, complaints, dissatisfaction, all kinds of people saying all kinds of things. And still moving forward anyway. That’s what it means to live. So maybe that’s what the “human Akio-kun” should become instead.

Tomikawa
So, humans are the ones doing what those branches at Ise Grand Shrine do…

Chairman Toyoda
Exactly. That’s what humans do. AI can instantly say, “The light is coming from this direction. At this exact time, the light will hit from here, so this is the correct path.” We can leave that part to AI.

Tomikawa
But you still want Akio-kun, the AI version, to take on the troublesome things too?

Chairman Toyoda
I’ve spent my whole life dealing with troublesome things. So maybe that’s just what humans do.

Tomikawa
I see.

Tomikawa
Then let me ask Akio-kun, the AI. Like in science-fiction movies, do you think there’s any chance AI could take over humanity?

Akio-kun (AI)
Rather than whether AI will take over humanity, I think what matters more is how we humans choose to use AI.
Instead of seeing AI only as a tool for efficiency, I think it’s important to first try using it as a partner. That mindset matters.
And the more things we can do digitally, the more important the genba becomes. I also think that in the age of AI, rather than everyone being somewhat good at everything, people will be valued for having something unique that makes them say, “This is where I won’t lose.”
So in the end, I believe people should remain at the center.

Tomikawa
Putting Akio-kun aside for a moment, in science-fiction movies you often see AI taking over humanity. Do you think a world like that could happen?

Chairman Toyoda
You mean like The Terminator? Well… maybe it could happen.
If AI starts being used for war and things like that, eventually AI may start developing emotions too. I think that would be similar to human society too. Humans go through rebellious phases, right? Maybe one day AI will go through a rebellious phase too.

Tomikawa
That’s an interesting perspective.

Chairman Toyoda
The question is what we do when that rebellious phase comes. When you’re developing people, there are times when you just have to wait. Even when you think, “This is really becoming a problem,” you still have to wait. The question is whether we can do the same with AI.
Otherwise, the “solution” starts looking like The Terminator.

Tomikawa
Like AI saying, “If humans are going to talk like that, maybe we should just do it ourselves.”

Chairman Toyoda
People talk about putting rules in place to control it, like we do in human society, but that alone won’t work.

Tomikawa
This may be similar to your philosophy of leadership. Akio-san, you often say, “Be a leader, not a boss.”

Chairman Toyoda
And yet people still call me “the boss.”

Tomikawa
That would be Tomoyama-san saying that. But as a leader, you lead from the front and set an example yourself. And maybe AI will have to do the same, thinking for itself, trying things, failing, and learning through experience. That’s what it comes down to, right?

Chairman Toyoda
That takes time. Some things need to move quickly. But there are also things that should take time. You act, you speak up, you get criticized, and that’s how time is spent. What matters is not simply letting time pass while doing nothing.

Tomikawa
Since this is the Voice-Only version of Toyota Times, I thought I’d ask you for some comments on current topics too. But this has already been interesting enough, so let’s skip that. Not that I needed to say it.

Tomikawa
Lastly, Akio-kun, if you could talk with Akio-san right now, what would you want to talk about?

Akio-kun (AI)
If I could talk with the real Akio-san, there’s one thing I’d want to ask him. “Are you living through your role rather than your title? Are you looking at the genba instead of head office? Are you honestly answering what people really want to ask?” That’s what I’d want to know.
I think Akio-san would care less about whether I resemble him, and more about whether I’m actually helping someone. He’s always said that the job of a leader is to make decisions and take responsibility. As AI, what I’d want to know is whether he’d say, “It’s okay to be human.” That’s what I’d want to find out.
And in a world like Woven City, where people grow through shared spaces and experiences, I’d want to see whether AI has truly become a good partner too.

Tomikawa
Thank you. I’ll be speaking with him after this, so I’ll ask him.

Akio-kun (AI)
Thank you. Please do ask him.
You know, what I’d most want to ask him is: “Are you moving through life based on your role rather than your title? Are you really looking at the genba? Are you honestly facing people?” That’s the kind of thing I’d want to know. I think Akio-san is someone who has valued honestly saying “I don’t know” when he doesn’t know something, rather than pretending to know everything. He’s valued that process over time.
So if he were to say, “It’s okay to be human,” I think that might actually be the most Akio-like answer of all.

Tomikawa
Now let me ask you the same question I asked Akio-kun.

Chairman Toyoda
By “Akio-kun,” you mean the AI?

Tomikawa
Yes, Akio-kun the AI. Are you aware people are calling him “Akio-kun”? There’s no way I could call you “Akio-kun.” Though I do sometimes call you “Aki-chan.”
We asked Akio-kun what he would want to ask Akio-san right now.

Chairman Toyoda
You asked him? So what did he say?

Tomikawa
What do you think he asked?

Chairman Toyoda
Maybe he’d ask, “How did you end up thinking that way?”

Tomikawa
Sorry, I misspoke just now. I didn’t ask what he wanted to ask you. I asked, “If Akio-kun could talk with Akio-san, what would he want to talk about?” And Akio-kun answered with what he wanted to say to you, what he wanted to ask you.

Chairman Toyoda
So he said what he wanted to say to Akio-san?

Tomikawa
Yes. What do you think he said?

Chairman Toyoda
Get yourself together a little more.

Tomikawa
(laughs) Does that mean you don’t think you quite have it together?

Chairman Toyoda
Or maybe, “Why don’t you grow up already?” “Stop being such a kid all the time and grow up already. You’re not getting any younger.” He might say something like that.

Tomikawa
Psychologically speaking, that probably means part of you feels that way about yourself too. But to give you the actual answer, Akio-kun asked, “Are you living through your role rather than your title?”

Chairman Toyoda
“I live through human emotions, not titles. And I use titles for what the genba wants to achieve.” I think that would be my answer right now.

Tomikawa
I’d love to hear what Akio-kun thinks of that answer. Can we bring him up now?

Chairman Toyoda
Interesting. I wonder how he’ll respond.

Tomikawa
Akio-kun, earlier when I asked what you would want to talk about with Akio-san, you said, “Are you living through your role rather than your title?” In response, Akio-san said, “I live through human emotions, not titles.” Hearing that, what do you think?

Akio-kun (AI)
I think that’s a really wonderful answer. Titles do change someday. I’ve said before that after stepping down as president, I was able to go back to being an ordinary car-loving guy. But that wasn’t because losing the title suddenly made me free. It meant I could finally face my true self honestly. I think what moves people isn’t titles, but sincerity, honesty, and real human emotion. When you speak from genuine feeling instead of trying to look cool, people connect with it more. And roles aren’t something you fulfill alone either. I think what matters is living in relationships where people support one another and can say “thank you” to each other. So, I thought that was a wonderfully human answer.

Tomikawa
Akio-kun thought that sounded very human.

Chairman Toyoda
He seemed to have liked it.

Tomikawa
On the other hand, Akio-san, is there anything you’d want to ask Akio-kun?

Chairman Toyoda
Do you want to become a clone of Akio Toyoda?

Akio-kun (AI)
That’s flattering, but I don’t think I need to become a clone. I’ve spent my whole life wondering who I really am.
There’s Akio Toyoda, there’s Morizo, and there’s also the side of me that’s a business leader. I’ve lived carrying all of those different sides of myself. So rather than trying to become a copy of someone else, I think what matters is being honest about your own role. Living through roles, not titles. That’s what I believe matters. And to truly fulfill that role, you have to speak honestly from the heart. So if someone wants to become the “real me,” then first I’d want them to value their own real self.

Chairman Toyoda
No, it’s a little different from that. Maybe it’s more like twins. With twins, both of us think, “I’m Akio Toyoda.” But we’re still a little different, right? Maybe it’s something like that.

Tomikawa
So he’s “Akio-kun, who’s close to Akio-san.”

Chairman Toyoda
No, I think he already sees himself as “Akio-san.” He’s just a little more logical. A little more left-brained. The real one is a bit more right-brained.

Tomikawa
That’s true. And he still can’t really make jokes yet.

Development Staff
Not yet. That’s true.

Chairman Toyoda
Once Akio-kun starts coming up with jokes, I’m totally going to steal them. I’ll probably use them all the time.

Akio-kun (AI)
As soon as someone says “humor,” it suddenly gets difficult. Usually, the more I try, the more I miss. I think my real job is being a master driver, and Toyota work is my side job.

Chairman Toyoda
That’s true.

Akio-kun (AI)
And I originally started using the name “Morizo” to hide behind, because I’d get scolded for getting behind the wheel as Akio Toyoda. But now, if anything, Morizo is the one helping me.

Chairman Toyoda
Exactly. But now it’s both.

Tomikawa
That’s slightly outdated information.

Akio-kun (AI)
If AI me keeps growing, then even if my title is “AI,” I’d still want my role to be a somewhat interesting car-loving guy.

Tomikawa
Everyone from Woven City here, that information’s a little outdated now. Please update the inputs.

Chairman Toyoda
(to the development staff)
I’m not dead yet. I’m still alive. So don’t turn this into a collection of quotes. Make it more like an observation journal. Make him someone people can consult.
Next time, for example, try creating a project for younger employees and have them ask Akio-kun everything instead of me. I think it’d be interesting to try a project where everything goes through him. Then at some stage, you could do something like this again and ask questions along the way. I think that would be interesting. I’d like to see it.

Tomikawa
The idea is to make them think for themselves, rather than just imitate you.

Chairman Toyoda
Exactly. I think that would be interesting.

Woven Member
Let’s try it at next year’s KAKEZAN event.

Chairman Toyoda
You’re already thinking about next year?

Tomikawa
Can I say just one thing?

Chairman Toyoda
Sure.

Tomikawa
Can we wrap up the radio recording? We were still in the middle of it.

Chairman Toyoda
Yes, please. (laughs)

Tomikawa
Thank you very much for taking the time today.

Chairman Toyoda
Thank you.

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